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Pharmacy Leaders Podcast: Inspiring Leadership Interviews

Feb 9, 2018

Finding satisfaction in the right residency or job involves more looking in than out, so I brought in Don Hutcheson, a prior service member, now a lifelong entrepreneur, inventor, author and coach who hosts the podcast: “Discover Your Talent—Do What You Love,” three days a week, which he created to help you find your true talents and use them to build a career of success, satisfaction and freedom. He’s never had a “boss” and has created 6 innovative companies in advertising, publishing, coaching and career planning—and now on the Internet—over the last 40 years. You can find him here:

Full Transcript:

welcome to the pharmacy leaders podcast
with your host Tony Guerra the pharmacy
leaders podcast is a member of the
pharmacy podcast network with interviews
and advice on building your professional
network brand and a purposeful second
income from students residents and
innovative professionals okay welcome to
the pharmacy leaders podcast today we
have special guest Don Hutchison Don
Hutchison is a lifelong entrepreneur
inventor author and coach he hosts a
podcast discover your talent do what you
love three days a week which he created
to help you find your true talents and
use them to build a career of success
satisfaction and freedom he's never had
a boss and he's created six innovative
companies and advertising publishing
coaching and career planning and now on
the internet over the last forty years
Don welcome to the pharmacy leaders
podcast Tony thank you so much it's a
pleasure to connect with you here well
what I like to do every once in a while
is bring in an expert just like you do
you're very consistent in bringing them
in once a week but pharmacists often
tend to stay within their group just as
nurses stay within their group and
physicians in their group and often
outside perspectives are really helpful
and I'm especially excited that you are
a humanities undergraduate major I'm an
English major I remember Europe I think
a Russian languages major is that right
yeah yes yeah so we're getting kind of
this thought process that well let's
let's create this curriculum let's put
them into stem and that's going to solve
things but I find the humanities
background actually tends to work really
well for the kind of things that people
come into now which is a lot of
uncertainty so can you first tell us a
little bit about where you've been and
how you've gotten here but also make
sure to include the humanities as it
kind of relates to your journey it's
funny because you talk about the
humanities being an advantage it's a
huge advantage I was just reading in I
don't know eight magazine I guess a
month or so ago that even in Silicon
Valley where you know you'd think that
the technicians or the scientist and the
software people would be would dominate
people that run those organizations say
that more and more people with the
humanities background are vital because
if they have a dozen it exchanges is
there whether they call it unloading or
onboarding a new client nine or 10 of
those meetings over a period of a couple
of months are all are they're not about
the technology they're about the
collaboration and creativity and
relationships and humanities people do
that better than technical people yeah
no I absolutely agree I just heard
someone talk about the ring of guy Gees
which I can't remember the Philosopher's
but basically the story was that if
someone was invisible would they do bad
things and then we think about trolling
in the Internet and you know this is
from Aristotle maybe you know thousands
of years ago and hear how pertinent
these kinds of things are today well
what I want to get from you because you
have this wealth of experience
especially with leading people to or
helping people get to where they want
and engage with their talents tell me a
little bit about what it is to look at
oneself holistically well yeah of course
it's my pleasure I had you asked me a
minute ago and I got off on that
humanities thing I uh after the tour
duty for three years in the military in
the Army I've graduated from Emory with
this degree in Russian language
literature and I was gonna be a teacher
so I got this great job at private
smells and I loved literature and art
and three months before I started a
friend had this idea for a magazine that
was about hiking biking canoeing culture
in the environment it was underfunded
he worked at Delta smart smart guy and I
I just thought about it and thought no I
don't want to jump into the matrix right
now I just want to explore this I don't
can't tell you why I did it
and so you know over the course of seven
years this guy who majored in literature
and wasn't interested in business
learned everything they wish to learn
about business from the ground up
because I had to not just about
publishing but about marketing and how
it all works
and that led me into eight years later I
saw my interest there and it got me into
the advertising business which I was in
for about ten years and that turned out
to be very fruitful because I had some
really brilliant partners and then I got
into this space that we're talking about
right now serendipitously like a lot of
things happen one of our superstars at
my firm Hutchison Shutts II was talking
to me at a cookout we were having about
how she moved from a private school in
Atlanta to Brown University and then to
Hutchison Schatzi and I was just I've
always been curious about what makes
people successful and so I said well
okay so what did you do did you talk to
a coach or a counselor and she said well
I went through this assessment that told
me how I was hardwired and I said oh
like myers-briggs are like strong or
campbell or drinks binders and she said
no no this was about how you're innately
hardwired to communicate problem-solve
learn make decisions etc and at that
time Tony this was way back this was in
nineteen I was talking to her in 1988 so
I'm really ageing myself here but this
was a 7-hour assessment over two days
seven hours oh my gosh yes so your your
uh your listeners are now clicking off
this pause right the podcasts will be
twenty five minutes but the assessment
of seven hours okay so I I found out how
I was hardwired you get this long
feedback and report and everything and
it nailed every aspect of me that that I
didn't know before and I've been through
all the other assessments and thought I
knew my personality and my interest and
values and all that so this was seven
hours long so tell me a little bit about
it well it was seven hours you didn't
check boxes like you do on all the other
assessments you were given what are
called work samples again this was
developed GE when they were trying to
find out who would make a good line
worker who I could
Marketing Director engineer CEO Human
Resources person so you got these these
almost like games just looking at images
or figuring out how you put something
together or solve problems and they're
timed they're nineteen of them and it's
it was totally fascinating and so I did
that and then came back a week later and
found out things about myself that I I
didn't have any clue about and I'd like
I said I did a good student and I had a
good career really moving along but
because of that experience I ended up
all about eighteen months later after
twelve years in the ad business selling
a very successful company to a second
largest ad conglomerate in the world and
with a brand psychologist
we created a we got the rights to that
assessment and we created a program that
helps people figure out not just their
hardwiring and talents but how they are
overall as an intellectual emotional
spiritual physical relational being so
that they can develop a strategy and
plan or personal vision for their lives
and we did that for eleven years before
we sold the company and coincidentally
as I told you in the pre-interview chat
after that was in 2001 so now we're
coming back in 2018 and we're
introducing this modality that she's
been used on tens of thousands of people
the assessment used on over a million
people and we're offering it to people
around the world off of our podcast so
tell me a little bit about what it means
to not be conscious about who you are so
you talked about this assessment and
tell me maybe a success story or what
happens before and after someone takes
this assessment yeah that's it that's a
fine question we we look at our look but
we look at ourselves in far too limited
of perspective so my partner back then
had been a really great student at a
private school in Atlanta and he talked
to the counselor and he had good good
scores on all those those tests that
which I think a fairly meaningless today
but regardless back then they were
really looked at and because he had good
test scores and was had good braids he
went off to Princeton because who can
turn down Princeton and that's that
would be tough well exactly but he he
finds out and we got together you know
25 years later that he didn't study some
things at Princeton that he could study
because he didn't think he had the
innate abilities or aptitudes for it and
he finds out 25 years later that he had
all of those than the 95th percentile so
he wanted to study higher math and some
other things and he was just intimidated
by it
so that's just one dimension my father
was a good man
and he wanted me to be a dentist because
I was a good student and it was shorter
than medical school so you see we're
staying along the the surface of things
Jeremy is it sounds fine on the surface
I took two years of chemistry and
biology in high school
and did fine no it wasn't a rocket
scientist but I worked hard by the time
I got the freshman chemistry in
university I realized in two weeks that
I my mind doesn't work like that you you
need a certain you need several
abilities to do higher science in order
to get into medical school or dental
school or I don't know where on a
suitable school physically that mix but
there there's there's a series of
problems on things so I was gonna flunk
probably at flunked chemistry because I
couldn't do it so I picked up philosophy
and German dropped chemistry today
before the deadline and I made a 4.0
instead of a flunk out so those are the
kinds of things that happen in people's
long times they they get into the matrix
and they look they're so short-term
focused and outer directed and wealth
power and status oriented are like you
know like so many people we know that
they don't say well Who am I we talked
earlier that people say well you kind of
had your why what's your purpose and
what gets you up fired up in the morning
that's very important but if you don't
know if Tony or Don don't know where
your listeners don't know who they are
who their what their innate abilities
are what are the skills they're learning
along the way which you you can't
ability is that's how you're hardwired
what are the skills what are your
passions in interest you know do you
really want to be a pharmacist do you
really want to be a lawyer I may be
studied have you talked to lawyers have
you figured out what they do every day
your personal style you know you're an
extrovert introvert do you do you relate
well to people would you rather work
alone what what are your core values I
mean are you humanitarian are you money
driven are you for the good of society
driven and then you know different ages
as we talked about the those agendas
change and you you look at things
differently when you're 18 heading off
to college versus when you're you know
65 getting rid of your retire and we
don't give ourselves credit for being so
multifaceted and we just as we wrote in
one of our books the looming conspiracy
we just get caught in the the outer
directed short-term focused approach and
it's never too late to do this
reflection but you've got to go inside
and the answers are only in you not
anywhere else well I guess where I'm
trying to go with this is so let's say
that a pharmacist gets up for work
tomorrow they listen to your podcast on
your podcast you always ask are you
doing work you love all of your guests
say yes and then they tell you how they
are now doing work they love but they
weren't always so let's say pharmacist
gets up tomorrow and says are you doing
work you love and he's like no no I'm
not now what now what a baby okay it's a
great question we've had 620 interviews
it's a great question okay you're right
every guest that's been on the show has
gone through those turning points and
very few people get in what I call their
sweet spot you know they're perfectly
okay I'll go to university I'll go to
high school of the university I'll go to
get my own pharmaceutical degree my
favorites call what's the callback is
recall so someone who had a PhD might
get a pharmaceutical degree where a
doctor of pharmacy would be a pharmacist
but either way really the the crux of
the question or the the conflict is I
don't want to go I'm not doing and using
the talents that I have
well well and so what I would say what I
we made tens of thousands of people go
through this process the first thing I
say is stop okay what do you mean well
all right
you've got to listen to yourself you've
got to what is it that you don't like
spend five or ten minutes a day before
you leave the office or when you get up
in the morning and just jot down what's
happening there what when are you in the
flow being a pharmacist when and what is
it doing the research is it talking to
clients is it managing is that what so
many facets to every profession what's
working for you and what's not working
for you and then doing that reflection
and journaling and then learn some more
about yourself you know get get feedback
I get the feedback from family and
friends about when you are your best
self and again we've talked about
assessments assessments are an important
part of that figure out so you can
figure out your hardwiring on your
abilities that's that's important but
you can also just reflect be reflected
with your journaling and with other
things you read about where what's gone
wrong here or how can you enhance what
you're doing maybe you don't want to get
out of pharmacy at all but the
pharmaceutical business or the being a
pharmacist but maybe you want to have a
hobby that's exciting for you and that
could be you name it it could be as
broad as the world you could you could
write you can do art you could coach you
could do all kinds of things get back to
public service
but you don't have to be stuck in that
slot that uses only a part of who you
are well Tuesday nights are my wife and
I is date night and often will try to
figure out where we want to go and she's
someone that doesn't answer in the
affirmative so if I say where would you
like to eat she won't tell me but if I
say do you want Italian Chinese or
Mexican she'll say well I don't want
Italian or Chinese which leaves the
third so how does someone find what they
do want if there are so many
possibilities I think it's almost
tougher to be an A student because
you're kind of good at math and
chemistry and all these things but how
do you kind of narrow
what you really want now that you've
decided well I don't think this is what
I this is what I don't want well it's
it's it's a really good question we
wrote a book about that called don't
waste your talent and we take people
through that or it's it's a really good
primer on that there's another great
classic that's been around longer much
longer called what color is your
parachute Richard Bolles had just passed
away at 90 this year and I would dig in
it because the question is so complex I
would dig in and do exercises you just
can't sit around and say okay and I say
I'll just reflect on this for a few days
it might take a month it might take a
year and a half you have to get next to
the question of who you aren't and all
the facets of who you are so if you go
through you know a program like the one
we developed or if you go through this
brilliant book by Richard Bolles what
color is your parachute or and then
there are others there's lots of others
that people have written read what
should I do with my life by Polk Brunson
came out about ten years ago where he
interviewed 900 people and listened to
how other people listen to our podcast
like you did I mean it's you know a whew
20 of those enlists deal with and what
they reflect on and they have maybe it's
some huge insight the hand or maybe it's
some big setback or a boss that's they
can't tolerate or a friend that gives
them an insight but you've just got to
look at yourself as a whole person not
just Chester Bernard said in the 40s we
hire people for their skills but the
whole person shows up for work and our
approach is called the whole person
approach you've got to look at yourself
as a multi-faceted being well let's
maybe talk about some of these facets
can we maybe break it out into values
personal style influences and goals can
we start with values and kind of see how
that takes us well yeah I mean again
their myriad I mean just what we worked
on we're just one of this theorem
probably thousands of people who've
developed modalities for this so
it's not like we invented it but you
know the values piece is just what you
would guess and what your listeners
would guess now I mean you know I had a
big ad agency and you know but we we
worked with companies that were in sync
with with what we cared about we had
KinderCare and Sylvan Learning Center's
and a temporary help company in a bank
and somebody come along and said hey
we've got this fifteen million dollar
cigarette I cannot do you want to work
with us I would have said gosh that's a
that's a big can to make a lot of money
no thank you I watched my parents
destroy their health smoking cigarettes
until they hit 50 and finally woke up no
I mean I mean I'm not or to today you'd
be working with GMOs or genetically my
working this into the shore which I
which are destroying our arable lands
and our health no I'm not going to have
them not going to work with the
agrochemical cartel for example so no I
wouldn't work with you but you know the
plenty of other things that I would do
so you know it's just it's just again
paying attention to what your core
what's your core essence is and what
really really drives you people we just
had a wonderful fellow on the show and
just wrote a fine book that I hope
you're it's called complete money
revolution and this man's been an
entrepreneur reason is early 60s he's
been an entrepreneur for 40 years and he
and the people that he has worked with
the invest in companies they only invest
in companies that make the world a
better place
you know if somebody came to them you
know like I said with a new cigarette or
some new company that was based on the
you know the you know the big oil
business which is going down fast
it's they know we're not in want
sustainable energy we want healthy foods
we want so that's what he's done and he
talks about it in this great book the
clean money revolution and so he he
early on figured out that his his dad
was a brilliant businessman and he was
in a certain industry that was a really
good industry but as a young man he
realized that it was just making money
and doing something that wasn't
sustainable from his perspective so he
made this route
I call decision to go in another
direction and he didn't inherit this
Empire and and do what he you know make
all this money but doing something that
it was not it was an honorable business
don't misunderstand and but it wasn't
anything that drove his uh his core
values so he didn't do it and it it
changed everything I got out of the
agency business because it was really a
good honest business we had a great team
but I wanted to get into a business
means selling more products and services
with creativity and good marketing was a
really good thing to do to use some of
your talents but it wasn't as powerful
as getting into an enterprise that
helped people find out who they are so
they can build a life of success
satisfaction and freedom which is what I
ended up doing well thanks yeah yeah
well tell me a little bit about personal
style we keep hearing branding as
something that people should do but I
feel like that's kind of amorphous can
you maybe speak to personal style or
branding and how that kind of comes from
when somebody really understands what
they're hardwired to do what well yeah
branding it's part of this the hardwired
but the other I mean everybody is
listening to this call is it's heard
about you know personality assessments
like the myers-briggs and that's been
around for a long long time it is very
effective they've also heard about this
concept that Daniel Goleman introduced
in 1995 called emotional intelligence
and it turns out that well your innate
hardwiring and abilities are vital for
you understanding how you engage the
world and problem solve and learn best
your personal style is also vital
because that's how you engage humanity
so the emotional intelligence side is as
you know is how you understand yourself
and are you reflective and a lot of
people aren't they're smart they're good
people but they really don't know from
moment the moment how they're feeling I
know that sounds crazy but it's true
they're they're pretty unconscious even
though they might be good hearted people
they're thinking and problem-solving and
learning and engaging the world and
everything but they're not in the flow
so you can find that out you can find
that out the emotional intelligence side
is is another side of that
where you you do understand more about
how you come across to people and are
you in fact engaging them and in the
moment and looking in their eyes and
taking in what they're saying or are you
trying to see where the conversation is
going and figure out what you can say
next based on what you think they're
going that's not being present that's
that's a you know it's a problem-solving
ability and it's you know it works on
some level but you're not gonna have any
heart connection with your clients or
your family or your friends if you're
always in that analytical mode no that
makes a lot of sense well we've talked a
little bit about the internal maybe we
can talk about a little bit about the
external influences that we have I'm
certainly influenced by my family my
parents a first-generation college
student so there were certain
expectations of me with college and and
how things are and and maybe they were
true back in the early 70s 80s but
things have really changed so that kind
of get a professional degree get
satisfaction from your life seems to
have crumbled a little bit in terms of
you know satisfaction especially in the
gig economy in this generation can we
talk a little bit about external
influences and and how malleable is that
can we work with those external
influences do we avoid them embrace them
how does that work I love that question
but there's one of the six we just told
you we just sort of an already
introduced this talent team we've got
and one of the six reasons people get
stuff in their career that from our
experience over several decades is we
have too much advice from well-meaning
people and again it's like my father
suggesting I'd be a dentist well if you
know that advice that people give you
whether it's the best friend or a coach
or you know somebody in the company you
know that's good stuff that's gets good
feedback it didn't tells you how they
respond to you and how they relate and
maybe can show some weak areas that you
can improve or some strengths that you
were hidden that you didn't know about
but again at the end of the day you do
only you when you wake up in the morning
and think about how you're gonna engage
the day or go to sleep at night thinking
let's see how did it go today
only you know you it's it's so obvious
in like a cliche but most people don't
know themselves very well and so like
Peter Drucker said about talents in a
1990 Harvard Business Review article
most people think they know what they're
good at they're usually wrong
and for the more there was a great
article called MANET managing once to
tell anyone on this you know Drucker was
the father of modern management yeah and
you Scott but he went on to say right
moreover they're not even good at
knowing what they're not good at so I
used those quotes because they're their
seminal to your listeners right now I
think okay well okay wait a minute maybe
there's some parts of myself that there
are unexplored so about the outer
directed side or the other influences
you know what is what is one of those
motivational guys say you're the other
direct end result of the five people
you're closest to sure the snow's a
smart idea Jim Rohn I think that's it
that's a smart concept so yeah if you've
got a you know people surrounding you
that you know I have one point of view
you got to listen to that but you've got
to get another perspective - well what
about goals so it's now or into the new
year some people have already broken
their resolutions I've heard many fewer
people make them in the first place
so what does maybe a concrete first step
towards getting these pieces into a goal
that would have a lasting change yeah
there's a I was just looking here I post
things on this bulletin board in front
of me there's I'm sure most of your
listeners have heard about this I don't
see them in there right now yeah there's
there's a there's a protocol that's been
around for decades that you know you've
got to have your goals be you know they
have to be reflective they have to be
achievable they have to be measurable
there's that there's an acronym yes
smart so yeah so yeah I mean I think
those those kinds of those kinds of
tools are really important so that you
are reflective and you use your own
self-awareness and the
have blend to chisel down two goals that
are meaningful in our just pipe dreams
so I think using those kinds of
modalities is real smart okay well done
is there anything else you want to talk
about that I haven't touched on Wow
let's see here
I think that on balance if I had to sum
it up I would say that the more your
listeners can look at themselves
ballistically the more I say to anybody
I don't care what age you are you are
literally I think we're here to use the
best of who we are and to make a
difference in on the planet and I think
that anybody is capable of that and as
we know from the Gallup statistics 86%
of people around the world
don't use their talents and almost 70%
of people in this country don't use
their talents according to Gallup silic
latest 2017 American workplace study
this is hard empirical data so I'd say
to your listeners whether you're in
bliss doing the work you're doing now
whether you don't like it a lot or hate
it you can you can get what you want if
you'll deploy some of these principles
that have been around for really
thousands of years and are put into
modalities like we have done and other
smart people doing this not just our
point of view there are other modalities
but reach out to those modalities
whether it's books or you know lectures
or courses by guests right that's what
our whole show I mean that's why we did
the show from this because this that was
my back there and then yeah exactly what
you're doing right here for your your
profession is highly needed it's not
just how do you market your pharmacy or
your practice or your profession but how
do you get the most out of who you are I
like what Raymond Carver said supposedly
wrote on his deathbed the great writer
I've gotten I've gotten when I set out
to get in my life can you say the same
I've done when I was I was put here to
do can you say the same and that's you
know that's what I'd say don't you don't
have to settle it's you know regrets of
dying by the palliative nurse Bonnie
another five the first one is I wish I
had I wish you had reached out to that
Hobbit me or I wish I had had the guts
to do something different in my life
that I could have done had I known that
there were processes to help me do that
well I was just reading Gretchen Rubin
and she came up with this book four
tendencies in one of these tendencies is
to be an obligor that is that we would
put other people's needs our works needs
the rest of our families needs before
our own and that accountability is
really one of the only ways to handle
this and many health professionals are
obligers they recognize they put others
before themselves what's a way that
someone could get in touch with you or
get this accountability well the they
can thanks they can go to discover your
talent and in that bar
there's contact and they can just write
us an email the the fact is I mentioned
to you that after all these years you
know since 2001 when we sold the company
we are doing this thing called the
talent team which is people I've worked
with for decades and using the
modalities I've shared and we're going
to offer that through this consortium
and membership sites and all kinds of
very interesting modalities to help
people to dig into these issues and if
your listeners want to you know get on a
mailing list it'll be coming out the
first half of this year as soon as
possible and then that will let them
know how to uh how to access that and
then take a look at the offerings that
we have and and you know we can go from
there we have we have access to that
assessment I was telling you about which
is pretty seminal and so we can now we
can move ahead if they're based on their
interest level and what they want to
achieve sounds good with Donn Hutchinson
thanks for being on the pharmacy leaders
podcast great pleasure great pleasure I
enjoyed chatting so much time thank you
hey this is Don Hutchison I hope you
enjoyed the interview that Tony and I
just had it was great fun and hope you
came some insights and perspectives if
you want to listen to interviews with
successful people from around the world
we're going through issues like you're
going through right now many of them
just go over to discover your talent and you can find the show
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