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Pharmacy Residency Podcast

Feb 21, 2018

Sean Kane, PharmD, BCPS, an Assistant Professor at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science in North Chicago, Illinois, and Critical Care Pharmacist  received his Doctor of Pharmacy degree at Butler University in 2010 and completed PGY-1 and PGY-2 in critical care at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

Dr. Kane created, an evidence-based clinical decision support website and HelixTalk, Rosalind Franklin University‚Äôs College of Pharmacy Podcast.


Full Transcript:

welcome to the pharmacy leaders podcast
with your host Tony Guerra the pharmacy
leaders podcast is a member of the
pharmacy podcast network with interviews
and advice on building your professional
network brand and a purposeful second
income from students residents and
innovative professionals this is Sean P
cane assistant professor and clinic
critical care clinical pharmacist at
rosalind Franklin University and you're
listening to the pharmacy podcast
welcome to the pharmacy leaders podcast
I've been doing this for about a month
and a half now and it looks like a
Monday Wednesday Friday is when you can
expect to see episodes maybe we'll have
a bonus episode from here or there but
that's what it looks like we're going to
have for the year I was kind of checking
my bandwidth to see what how many
episodes I could do in a week or in a
month and that seems to be good but what
I wanted to bring back was dr. Sean cane
from rosalind Franklin University who
maybe has taken the road that many of
you are looking to take which is to do
pgy one residency pgy two residency and
then get an academic position I think
he's really articulate in the way that
he talks about how it worked out and
it's not always a completely straight
line but rather kind of a series of
three adjustments and decisions that
eventually get you towards your goal so
please enjoy this episode with Sean cane
of rosalind Franklin today we're talking
with Sean cane PharmD BCPs an assistant
professor rosalind Franklin University
of Medicine and science in North Chicago
Illinois in a critical care farm
assistant advocate Condell Medical
Center in Liberty
Illinois dr. Cain received his doctor a
pharmacy degree at Butler University in
2010 completed two years of residency
specializing in critical care at the
University of Illinois at Chicago and
dr. King is the creator of clinic out
comm an evidence-based clinical decision
support website with educational tools
for health care students and
professionals in addition dr. Kim's the
creator and co-host of helix Tong
Rosalind Franklin's University's College
of Pharmacy podcast welcome to the
pharmacy podcast thanks for having me
well we want to get right into it I know
about you because I've listened to your
podcast from episode one top 200 that
you guys did and and follow every three
weeks as you guys get the podcast out
but let's get our listeners to get to
know a little bit about you so doctor
came before we get started what was your
leadership road from Butler University
in Indiana to Chicago as a PG y1 + PG
why - to your present academic position
you know say when I was at Butler
University I kind of fell into some
leadership roles a lot of it came
through professional organizations like
Phi Delta Chi and through being a class
officer and kind of as I got more into
it the more interested I became and you
know being a better leader and improving
myself and things like that so Butler
you know those experiences really helped
me transition to going into PGI one and
the PGA - actually was when I was at PGI
one I started Glen Cal calm which you
mentioned earlier and clearly that has a
lot of things related to leadership and
taking initiatives and things like that
it was my goal to do something that
people hadn't done before with that
website then as peju a - i was the chief
resident so i had a lot of kind of where
administrative responsibilities I get to
see some of the other sides of Pharmacy
residency and what goes into conducting
a residency and things like that and now
my current position
again at rosalind Franklin University
I'm you know a co-host of helix talk I
serve on a lot of different committees
within the college to you know improve
the quality of education here at
rosalind Franklin University then
honestly I precept so I'm a critical
care pharmacist so certainly when my
roles is to serve as a good mentor and
leader to the students that percept on
my at my clinical site okay tell me a
little bit about this Clinton calc
online and and maybe you can talk about
foam IDI in general my understanding is
that that stands for free open access
medical education and what you're doing
with your podcast what you're doing with
Glenn calc online is giving this
information absolutely free to anyone
that wants to use it and that is just
seems to be something that's a bit of a
trend on Twitter on social media so tell
me a little bit more about what Clin
calc is how it started and maybe where
it might be going so it's actually funny
how Clint calc started as a PG one at
USC we had an on-call program which
meant that we would stay overnight have
a pager and get paged for everything
from kinetics consults vancomycin and
amino glycosides to antibiotic dosing
all the way to codes and strokes and
things like that so I actually created
Clint calc fairly selfishly because
every time we got a vancomycin consult
it took a long time to do the math of
how to dose vancomycin and then actually
generate a progress note indicating that
the pharmacists had reviewed the patient
chart and what our recommendations were
so I actually created this website where
it would semi automate the process I was
still clearly involved in you know the
decision making process but this was a
tool to help make me more efficient so
from creating this vancomycin calculator
and having it generate the progress note
for me I kept doing more and more of
these clinical calculators that would
just make my job easier make me more
efficient as a pharmacist and
provide better care for my patients of
course as an add-on to that it was a
publicly available for your website and
still is so you know any other
clinicians that want to have the
efficiency benefit and the benefit of
utilizing you know evidence-based
medicine they can use this website to
leverage their own you know clinical
practice so that's kind of what clink
outgrew out of was that PGI one
experience and then it's kind of grown
from there and a lot of different
directions from mobile apps to you know
beyond clinical calculators to as you
mentioned kind of dabbling a little bit
and foam ad where it's more of a review
of you know a primary primary literature
articles or something that you know
overall helps pharmacists provide better
care for their patients so I think the
term I've heard over and over again a
scratch your own itch that is instead of
telling other people what they need to
do better just make it a little bit
easier for yourself and that problem may
be something that you're also solving
for other people for me it was that I
had students that had chemistry maybe 20
years ago or never even had chemistry
and I've got a teacher in pharmacology
as an 18 year old 19 year old and what
do I do so I kind of came from it from a
humanities perspective but first
scratching your own is kind of figuring
out what it is that what problem you
need to solve for yourself but I've also
heard about IBM Watson and can you talk
a little bit about how technology
because I started pharmacy school in 93
finished in 97 the big big thing was
that we got laptops and so that was how
long ago that was the internet was just
something fledgling when we were coming
out we were still using Netscape
Navigator but how the students work with
technology because I understand IBM
Watson we hear that it's it's not
supposed to replace the clinician but to
work with the clinician to go through
all of these databases and make things a
lot easier so how do students up at
rosalind Franklin work with technology
as they're doing kind of these clinical
activities you know attorney I think you
bring up such
important point and that the the
pharmacist will never be fully replaced
by any degree of artificial intelligence
or database or anything like that
there's so much art to medicine that you
just cannot replace you know a living
human being who has a skill set from
being in pharmacy school and being
trained and having clinical experience
there's always this fear that people
have of things like online calculators
that you know if a calculator can do it
why do you need the pharmacist in the
first place sugar sure I always tell my
students and anyone who uses the website
is that this is a tool for you to use it
doesn't replace you so using vancomycin
as an example I always tell all of the
students that I precept that you got to
come up with a vancomycin dose on your
own before you even begin using a tool
like that and the reason is that it
takes one typo one little mistake that
if you're not critically appraising what
the dose is coming out of a clinical
tool you're gonna make a drug error and
hurt someone so this is always a tool
that is an adjunct to your own clinical
judgment and it's not the reverse where
it is your clinical judgment and that's
such an important thing that I hope
everyone takes away from that is that
you know the you still have to use your
own clinical thought process as opposed
to just relying blindly on whatever the
tool is I've heard that over and over
again that it's about getting the
process right and the technology will
magnify it in whatever directions so if
you have a bad process you're going to
magnify that bad process but if you have
a good process you can magnify that good
process as well what just sounds like
what you developed through pgy 1pg why
to but tell me a little bit about what I
just saw someone on Facebook today very
excited she I believe she's with a renal
team and she got that job after pgy one
but tell me what it is to go from a pgy
1 to p gy 2 is that something that you
had set up there or you decided to stay
in the same place or did you look at
other different places yeah so you know
for personal
since I wanted to stay in the Chicago
area because of that my options were
fairly limited as PGI one or a pre PGI
one I didn't specifically look at
programs that had a PGI to critical care
component with the intention of
potentially having that door open to me
if I was to match at a fee joy one spot
and then when I became a PGI one and I
was looking for PGI two spots you know
obviously I was looking for you know
critical care and in particular and I
was open to maybe emergency medicine as
well but critical care was really what
got me excited and things like that so I
would say that for probably through my
p2 or p3 year I had a pretty good idea
that I was going to end up pursuing a
PGI 1 and P 2 i2 or critical care but it
wasn't until I was really at my PGI one
spot that I really thought about the
nuts and bolts of how that entire career
path would work and how it worked out
and things like that it was a little
weird for me to hear you say when I was
in the magic is when I think of the
professor's I never really remember that
I'm like oh my gosh they always wanted a
match or they headed through the match
to you you kind of I don't know why for
whatever reason I think oh they were so
smart you know what they didn't even
have to go through the match I just
called them up and said hey you know I'm
your critical care guy just just take me
but I forget that you know that that
happens as well and looking at the the
faculty you have there you have a
relatively young group which brings a
lot of energy brings a lot of new ideas
it sounds like you're trying a lot of
new things and when I say young I mean
you know less than 10 years out I've
been out 20 years which actually makes I
think me a liability in many ways that
you know it's like well you know then
and I'm sure they would be really polite
about it but but let's say I went to a
faculty interview now they'd be sitting
there you know maybe asking like so
PowerPoint word you know maybe looking
to see if I know those basic things but
what do you think is different because
we're talking about Gen X maybe versus
the Millennials
what's the maybe a couple of big
differences you can tell me about
your ability to connect with the
Millennials versus someone that is in a
Gen X position like myself or or maybe
even a boomer generation something like
that yeah I mean well first of all I you
know in in defense of you and all of the
other appreciate it but older pharmacist
out there everyone's different right so
you're gonna get Gen Xers who are more
like the millennial advice first that's
just a label right sure with that in
mind though I think that any newer
graduate that you get is going to
probably be able to relate to some of
the topics and the struggles of being a
student better than an older person
would and the reason that I say that is
even so I graduated in 2010 is now 2017
even over the past two to three years I
feel like I've become more disconnected
and understanding the struggle of the
pharmacy student we're disconnected and
appreciating what they don't know and
what I take for granted that they do
know and things like that so certainly
with that younger faculty they're gonna
have a better idea of what were common
misconceptions what are things that you
have to delve into deeper because it's
not a given that a student would know
about a certain topic I think that
there's a huge strength to that in terms
of how you teach if a pharmacy student
because you were there not that long ago
and you know what it was like and you
know what you struggled with and there's
intense value to that as an educator to
remember that and to you know harness
that into being a better teacher yeah I
think a physicist coined that term the
curse of knowledge where you've the
further you get in your education the
less you're able to connect with the
those that you know we're kind of
following in your footsteps so even a PG
y1 or PG Y to so many things have just
become in grade the rain and angiotensin
aldosterone system is one picture to you
where they're sitting there you know
struggling through angiotensinogen to
angiotensin 1 to angiotensin 2 and and
so we have these kind of combinations
well let's let's make it a little more
academic I guess I we want to do a
little bit of interview but also kind of
wanted to talk about this debate in
American Journal of pharmaceutical
education I want to make sure I get this
right so it was 2016 8 number 80
article 37 okay and we're gonna there
was a point-counterpoint in there do you
want to introduce our two sides of this
point counterpoint dr. Cox and dr.
Spencer yeah so dr. Cox is of the Texas
Tech's College of Pharmacy and then dr.
Stinson is from Purdue and basically the
point counterpoint is fighting it out
whether fourth-year pharmacy students
are finally your pharmacy students when
they go on their advanced experiencial
education rotations whether it's
appropriate for those students to take
an academic or an administrative type
rotation and count that toward their a p
or advanced experiencial education hours
or not the the debate is basically
should all rotations in that fourth year
be somewhat related to the medication
use system or given the ever-changing
role of the pharmacist in the future is
it appropriate to consider some of these
were novel or different rotation
opportunities even if those newer
opportunities don't necessarily touch
the medication use system I'm gonna take
a page out of the helix talk where one
of your two co-hosts would say well dr.
Cain what is the medication use system
the medication use system is basically
and they have a great diagram in the
article but it's every aspect from drug
development to prescribing dispensing
administering monitoring drug therapy
basically anything that touches drug
therapy from beginning to end of drug
development all the way to giving it to
a patient and that's the medication use
great we'll be right back but first a
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now back to the pharmacy pocket okay
well let's let's kind of talk about
these two types of rotation the academic
rotation and we'll compare it to the
critical care intuitively I would think
a rotation with a professor would
actually be the most difficult because
you have the person that's most
knowledgeable about a specific set of
maybe maybe it's so knowledgeable as you
go to PhD or PharmD or pgy to you become
very good at a very narrow a narrow
spectrum I hate to use an antibiotic
term but a very narrow spectrum of
knowledge but what the comparison was or
if I remember right was versus the
critical care which you hear so
basically you're the problem where your
rotation is the problem is what they
were saying that that you're taking the
student from 6:30 a.m. to maybe 4:30
5:30 p.m. we're an academic rotation
might be more of a 9:00 to 5:00 could
you characterize the two types of
rotations as you see em academic versus
critical care yeah so clearly like in a
critical care environment you're dealing
directly with patients and you're
dealing directly with medications and
you know especially in the critical care
environment that's a very Iron Man where
patients are very sick and you know one
of the reasons I love critical care is
there's such a huge role of the
pharmacist because of things like organ
dysfunction and the medications that we
use literally can save someone's life in
a matter of minutes to hours there's
such a big role for that pharmacist to
play to make sure that we're giving the
right antibiotics or the right drugs
that we're dosing it appropriately
things like renal impairment are so
common so it's a very complex picture
and typically and then I see you have a
ton of patients who are really sick it's
not like you're just taking care of one
person sure on the academic side you
know you aren't taking care of patients
you're typically taking care of students
right so you're figuring out how to run
a lab or give a lecture or write exam
questions and obviously isn't the same
kind of stress but for some students you
know public speaking it's extremely
stressful so it depends on the student
but clearly like the the types of
interaction with students can have the
responsibilities things like that are
just different between the two rotations
yeah you make a good point we are
academic AP PE here at DMACC they would
be in front of pharmacy technicians
students they would be able to interact
with the other 19 programs we have here
in health and public services but yeah
it's definitely not get up at 6:30
because I wouldn't be here I do get up I
get up early you know to work out but I
don't really get here till 8:00 and that
seems today I'm late
and then critical care it just sounds
like it's it's a very long thing you've
got all these different patients and I
feel like I want to say getting up to
speed for critical care or if you are I
hate to say unlucky enough but if you
hit critical care is your very first AP
PE or how do you call them a Peas yeah
so if you hit that first do you feel
that that student is at a disadvantage
do you think it's is there something
they should be taking before the
critical care rotation yeah I mean to
have a critical care rotation as your
very first app your ap PE that's pretty
brutal from a scheduling point of view
generally it's nice for the student to
have a end page
medicine rotation under their belt or at
a very minimum some kind of an internal
medicine thing just so that they can get
their feet wet in terms of reading
through progress notes you know if you
think about how many words you could
potentially read per chart per day it's
insane so the EHR it's especially so
with that copy and paste seems to be a
bad word that we keep hearing with the
EHR and with your p gy 1 p gy 2 were you
already familiar with the EHR and it
made it easier for pgy - oh yeah so you
know on my p4 rotations most of the
hospitals or many of the hospitals I
worked and had Cerner and at UIC we also
had Cerner and clearly because I was at
the same institution between my first
year my second year my learning curve
for Cerner was basically none and then I
was fortunate enough at my current site
advocate Kondo we also have Cerner so to
be super familiar with the EHR to be
able to get where you want to go and
find the information you need quickly
that's a huge skill that makes you way
more efficient than if you're kind of
struggling through that software well
let's talk a little bit about the the
points of view so let's take dr. Cox's
point of view of saying that maybe an
academic rotation isn't necessarily to
become part of the Academy to become an
assistant associate or a full professor
but rather to be a good preceptor I know
that at the last meeting there was a lot
of talk and I think it was in Anaheim
that we really need more non faculty
preceptors out there volunteering to
help these students tell me a little bit
what you think about in terms of what
the academic rotation can really do
outside of just here you have to go to
the Academy you know I think that if you
were to pull a hundred preceptor or
anyone who interacts with pharmacy
students the vast majority of them will
have never received any formal teaching
or precepting education to help them be
a better preceptor and that's you know
something that
the world of pharmacy really needs to
pay attention to because these are the
people who are training our pharmacy
students to be pharmacist right so we
want them to be able to you know deal
with issues that come up on advanced
practice rotations we want them to be
able to identify I want a student
struggling and you know use their
skillset to make that student successful
so in my opinion precepting isn't
something you can just fall into and you
become a great preceptor it takes time
and energy and certainly you'd be a
better preceptor faster if you can have
some kind of formal training even if it
is one happy rotation to help you be a
better preceptor yeah I think students
are surprised with how much non teaching
there is in being a professor or being a
teacher I think they forget that they
were also advised by the professor that
the professor was on all these
committees that the professor has to
prepare for you know whatever and when
we think of maybe education maybe we
think too much of the lecture hall and
speaking directly to the student not
thinking about okay well we flipped the
classroom so now what do I give the
student and how do we make them learners
within their own right well let's look a
little bit a dr. Spence and he I thought
I understand him as saying that the more
clinical a P Pease the better and that
residency is the place to kind of pick
up that paying it forward so let's first
get it right for you and then paid for
but what were your thoughts on dr.
Spencer you know I I see where he's
coming from and one thing that I think
is important to point out in his
editorial is his personal experience and
kind of anecdotally he's felt that
pharmacy students that graduate are not
yet practice ready and on the basis of
that he argues that they just need more
clinical experience and more rotations
and more
whereas better basically you know dr.
Cox kind of comes back at him and says
more isn't always better that you know
quality is probably the more important
metric than quantity and I think that
there's a lot of truth to that I think
myself included I've heard of other
students and even my own personal
experience not every rotation is going
to be a star rotation and I think that
for those rotations that don't have high
yield in terms of making you a better
pharmacist or giving you a better feel
for what you need to know as a
practicing pharmacist I think that you
know again as a community we need to
think about how do we identify those
rotations how do we make them better or
how to identify higher quality rotations
to get us to that practice ready
standpoint on your I want to say it was
the last helix talk or maybe the one
before it you've talked about and I hate
to say the word good student versus bad
student so let's say more motivated
student versus a little bit less
motivated student for your particular
rotation they might be a stellar
motivated student but you just happen to
be a required rotation can you know
making let's just say that you made them
all clinical ap PE s what would what do
you think that would do that feels like
it's very one-dimensional to me but I
think that no matter what if you don't
have a motivated student I feel like it
has to be up to the student to decide
yes I'm gonna put this much into it and
I think a student could get just as much
out of having two electives as they
could have getting no electives if they
were well motivated but what do you
think about the students role in all of
this oh yeah I mean I totally agree with
what you said so motivation and self
discipline and self directed learning
these are things that you can't force a
student to have and typically can't even
teach them you know it's one of those
qualities honestly that makes a great
residency candidate is someone who does
have those qualities
you know on many rotations students can
kind of get by and be able to pass and
they'll do okay but they really want to
get an excellent experience out of those
rotations they do have to have some
degree of the self directed approach of
asking questions and having their own
follow-up to the questions that they
have and seeking out projects and
seeking out more information you know
that's super important to get the most
out of orientation and typically a
preceptor can't make a student do that
that has to be on the student's own
initiative to do that there's something
that always confused me a little bit or
maybe with the new guidelines and
correct me if I'm wrong but my
understanding is that you can have a
four week a five week or a six week
rotation and you're allowed only two
electives but that means that you could
have an eight week versus a twelve week
experience you're talking about a month
difference between any two colleges of
pharmacy can you just talk about how
your electives work or how your elective
system works at rosalind Franklin kind
of maybe why you you guys decided to use
that particular experience well I know
that you are not in the experiencial
office but what was your guys rationale
for the way that you set up the
experiential part which i think is you
know just one step from being a
pharmacist yeah so you know kind of the
answer that I kinda want to go back to
my butler days a little bit to give kind
of a good comparison so when I was at
Butler we had I want to say it was about
ten for wing rotations okay and I don't
I don't recall the balance of electives
and that and things like that but I had
some awesome rotations and I was able to
have some of these awesome rotations
simply because I had ten of them and I
had a lot to work with everything from
an underserved Hispanic clinic whereas
basically speaking Spanish all day to
you know time of Eli Lilly to see kind
of the industry side of things I had two
different critical care rotations which
almost never happens I really lucked out
on that so I was just able to have a you
know a wide variety of a lot of
different cool experiences
so here as I'm frankly we actually have
six week rotations and we also have the
system called a lappy a longitudinal a P
or a PPE okay means that students will
go to a health system like advocate or
northwestern and they will actually
spend four of their six week blocks
within that system so Candela is an
example where I work they may do a
hospital rotation and admin rotation
transitions with care rotation and then
an ICU rotation all in the same building
back to back to back to back clearly the
advantage to that is that you're not
relearning an HR every rotation you kind
of know the system you know where to
park you know everything about the site
and from the site's point of view they
don't have to train new people every
month because they have these people who
kind of know what's going on when the
lapi system first-world out here at the
university I was very opposed to it
based on my experience at Butler I loved
the fact that I had such a rich
diversity of experiences but now that
we've had a couple laughy's under our
belt I I really can as a preceptor see
the value in it I can see students being
able to pick up the clinical skills
quicker because they're not struggling
through the EHR and things like that so
taking the administrative component out
of it and massively so that that kind of
frustrating time that first day isn't
really a first day I in in in the sense
of okay I didn't know we had a student
this month and that doesn't happen that
often but but just kind of getting to
the point that sometimes preceptors like
oh my gosh that's right we have a
student I forgot it was this day you
know now we've got to get you at my
speed and and and how you log in yeah we
get all this may and make it meaningful
quickly and I'm not from Chicago I'm
from Baltimore and I know how big
Baltimore is can you explain where
rosalind Franklin is cuz my
understanding is it's in North Chicago
and Chicago is so big that means 20 to
25 minutes which which to me I didn't
know I just thought Chicago is just this
here Chicago and here's not Chicago
right it's kind of funny so like
Chicago the word North Chicago is
actually the city that we're in just not
like the north part of Chicago it's
literally nourish ACOG owes the name of
the city okay and we're actually
probably closer to Wisconsin than we are
to downtown Chicago so we're very far
north so you know which is kind of good
for our students because that means that
students that are kind of up in the area
have the opportunity to go to a place
like Milwaukee and that's not terribly
far away they can also go downtown and
it's still not terribly far away so we
have access to a lot of different kinds
of practice sites at our disposal simply
because of geography that were not
strictly downtown and we're not strictly
you know all the way up in Wisconsin
something like that no that makes a lot
of sense we were in Baltimore but close
enough to DC that we could have
Washington DC and Baltimore so it sounds
like something similar except we were we
were truly an urban campus well I want
to keep the the podcast not too long but
how would somebody contact you if they
did want some more information yeah so
you know our information is available at
helix talk comm we're on twitter at
helix talk and if you're more interested
in kind of the clinic outside its
clinton Capcom or at Clint calc on
Twitter okay and then just to give us
some good advice just a couple of quick
hit questions here what's your best
daily ritual to keep your work on track
you're clearly a busy person clearly a
lot of responsibilities how do you do it
all so my number one thing that I do
every time I get into work is I make a
to-do list I probably spend like 10 or
15 minutes figuring out what things I
have to accomplish what things I'd like
to accomplish what are some of the
longer-term projects or goals and then I
have my cup of coffee
just that you do that afterwards I I
have to confess that this was not my
fault that dr. oz episode was on but he
was talking about these four different
types of sleepers and and that some
people are supposed to have coffee after
they get up like an hour after they get
up and then some people at noon so it's
just funny to me that most people is
like you know coffee then I can paint it
but sounds like
you think then you use your coffee as I
don't know a turbo boost or something
like they got it okay but your best
daily ritual is to spend 10 to 15
minutes figuring out what I want to do
that day so you know hours into my day I
know exactly what things I was thinking
about that morning it's just a way to
stay organized and make sure your
triaging your time appropriately okay
and I want to say that many students are
looking to have your exact path maybe
not exact geographical E but that
they've gone to pharmacy school they've
gotten the critical care P gy1 they've
gotten to stay in a city that they want
to be in for their pgy - how did you
what good career advice did you get to
get you on that good road well first off
let's be honest some degree of luck has
played a role and my ability to have the
career path that I've had certainly part
of it was you know hard work and staying
motivated and dedicated and things like
that I think that one thing that
emphasize to students especially those
who are more interested in leadership
and entrepreneurship maybe starting
their own business or starting a new
project there's a thing called imposter
syndrome Tony I don't know if you're
familiar with this or not it's did the
the feeling that when you are trying to
accomplish something or do something new
or different that you feel like
certainly you're not qualified enough to
do it and then you get the self-doubt in
your mind everything from clenched out
the helix talked to Peter I want pgy to
you know many of the things that I've
done in life if I listen to that
impostor syndrome and let it take over I
would have never accomplished anything
so even if you feel like you're not
quite there aside from doing everything
you can to get there you you have to
acknowledge it almost everyone has a
sense of imposter feeling or impostor
syndrome and if you let that take over
you're not going to do it you want to do
in life and it's important to
acknowledge it but also you know
pass it by on the on the road to success
no I I've heard that especially in PhDs
where you'll be around a lot of smart
people who are very smart in their
particular discipline so when you listen
to them you're like oh my gosh I'll
never get there but where we really
struggle with the imposter syndrome
being in a community college is that
maybe our student didn't do so well in
high school and they think that makes
them necessarily a bad student now and
when I look on social and I look at
YouTube videos one of the number one
questions I see students asking is how
hard is pharmacy school and I think what
they're asking is am I going to get
rejected am i an imposter am i somebody
who yeah you know has to I don't have
the perfect A's I didn't do the 19
credits I'm supposed to do according to
the rubric you know on my college
website I didn't do everything perfectly
and and my advice to them like you say
is don't reject yourself
let somebody else reject you and then
move on to the next but but don't reject
yourself from applying don't reject
yourself from a profession because you
have evaluated yourself and in many ways
you know not the best judge let the
admissions committee judge you and let
the admissions committee give you
feedback because that's the one thing
that I think I think getting into
pharmacy school getting the professional
school is much more about persistence
than it is about perfection but in their
head that's more about perfection and
and that's a great point you bring up
well last question what inspires you you
know for me there's two things that
inspire me one as an educator to see the
PGI or to see the p1 or p2 student
progress through a curriculum get to
their p4 year have them on rotations and
see them basically mature into this
student to be practicing pharmacists and
it's such a cool transition especially
in that fourth year to see them move
from student role and to I'm going to
take care of patients and do what's
right for the patients so that's one
thing the other thing that really gets
me inspired and motivated is my clinical
sites so in the ICU making those great
catches that dramatically improves
patient care whether it's avoiding an
adverse effect or
defying you know a medication that it's
missing that absolutely has to be there
or changing an antibiotic regimen to
better cover a bug that ends up being
this monster multidrug-resistant bug you
know all these things in terms of
improving patient care that's the whole
reason why I became a clinical
pharmacist in the ICU is to take better
care of patients so to have those those
big wins always gets me excited for the
next day to go back into the ICU and do
it again well it's clear you have so
much joy and so much happiness with your
profession in your role and in the city
that you're in so again thanks so much
dr. cane for being on the pharmacy
podcast thank you so much support for
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